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9 Reasons Not to Live in Norway
The internet is filled with breathtaking pictures of Norwegians fjords and lakes with pristine water, red wooden cabins and beautiful people hiking. “This is Norway” it usually says on those pictures and videos. Sure, those places exist and it is Norway, but Norway is also many other things. A new study by OsloMet (Oslo Metropolitan University) shows that 30,000 foreigners leave Norway every year (project EXITNORWAY). The researcher asks “Norway is lovely, why are people leaving?”. After almost 13 years in Norway, and as a foreigner myself, I can imagine a few reasons why people would leave. Norway is lovely indeed, but there are many reasons for foreigners to change their mind and leave after all.
- Hard to make Norwegian friends
It is possible to make Norwegian friends, of course, but it is harder to make local friends in Norway than almost anywhere else in the world. A survey by InterNations showed that Norway is 55th on the list, making it to the bottom 10 of the countries in the world where it is easiest to make local friends. The main reason is that Norwegians have built their own social network since early childhood. They have friends from kindergarten, primary school, middle school and high school. Then they have made friends at folkehøyskole, university and during Russ. They’ve made friends in summer camps, in youth political parties they were members of. Then when they finish their studies, they’ll maybe make a few friends along the way from work, but basically their friend quota is filled and you are late for that friendship train. They don’t have time for you anymore, however cool you may be. The last train you might be able to catch is making friends from work and with parents of other kids the same age as your kids (if you have any). But that implies that you speak Norwegian, and that they are interested in making new friends. It is however possible, read this for more tips on how to make local friends.
2. The complexity of raising kids in Norway
About kids, raising children in Norway is a different ballgame than doing so in your home country. In Norway, the state has in a way a higher degree of protection duty on all kids living on the territory than their own parents. Any complaint or even a simple call to the Child Protection Services (Barnevernet) has to be followed up by a home visit and an investigation by the authorities. In Norway any kind of corporal punishment is totally illegal, whereas in other countries, for example the UK, smacking a child is still legal as long as it is “reasonable punishment”.
Barnevernet has been widely criticised in international media and accused of taking children away from their parents based on no proof, while others in Norway claim Barnevernet is not moving fast enough to protect children exposed to abuse in their own homes. In any case, even if you don’t do anything illegal as a parent in Norway, raising children in Norway is bound by a lot of written and unwritten rules which can be tricky for foreign parents to follow – and know about. From expectations at school, how to dress them for every season, and more.
Many foreigners are for example shocked at the food given to children in daycares (barnehage) but also the lack of cantine and warm food given to kids in school.
If you come from a country where education is important, you’ll be surprised by the Norwegian education system which does not give marks or grades to kids until they turn 13, and which let’s kids watch television during school hours while still letting them go home by 1.30pm.
School is not free either, and from the age of 1 until the age of roughly 12 you’ll need to pay roughly 3500 NOK per month per child (reduced price for the second and third child). This is because daycare is until 6, and even public daycares aren’t free. From 6 to 12 years old school is technically free but unless you are not a working parent, there is now way you can pick them up at 1pm when they are done, so you’ll need to pay after school activities until you finish your own job. Food given to kids is also a huge topic, with mostly unhealthy options such as bread several times per day with sweet and way too salty spreads.
3. The price of Eating And Going Out
The price of eating out is pretty outrageous even for people earning a decent salary. You might be able to do it if you don’t have kids, but otherwise count 250 NOK for a meal for one person, that is not counting the drinks, desserts or alcohol – which has insane prices compared to anywhere. Drinking a glass of wine out in a bar can cost around 80 NOK and there is no beer under 70 NOK either.
4. Arrogance of Norwegians regarding other cultures
In 2018, the US Pew Research Center did a survey among many people in the world on nationalism. People in 15 European countries were asked to what degree they agree with the statement “Our people are not perfect, but we have a superior culture than others” Norway is the only country where a majority of respondents completely or mostly agree that their culture is superior. 58 percent of Norwegians completely or mostly agreed to the statement. Spain was the one which answered they least agreed with that statement.
From the survey, it seems national pride is also very widespread in Norway. 92% of Norwegians say they are either “very” or “somewhat” proud of being Norwegian.
Now those are numbers from a survey which might not represent the whole Norwegian population. Or maybe it does. In my experience, Norwegians are less arrogant about their culture being superior than Danes (where I lived a bit over a year), but still quite high.
I have heard stories from people coming from Russia, Ecuador or Brasil who have been met with quite offensive comments from “helpful” Norwegians. “This is soap, you might not know what it is in your country”. A friend was in a Norwegian university to study for a PhD and a person from the university told her “This is a computer, you might have never seen one”. She came from Russia. Another friend, Afro-American from the US, is consistently met with disdain, until she says she is from the US. “Ooohh that is different”.
If you are from an African country, or Muslim, racism of a higher level may occur, spoken or unspoken. My observation is that depending on where you come from and the color of your skin, many Norwegians will assume things about you. Decades of media coverage about Africa being extremely poor and a favorite destination for Norwegian missionaries is not helping. Neither is the rising anti-Muslim voices from the far right including in political parties which have been governing in recent years.
5. The terrible weather
The weather is also not something you’d stay in Norway for. It rains a lot in this country, and with climate change it will rain even more. Even in the middle of the summer it can snow in Finnmark. The summer can be 25 degrees and sunny or rainy with 8 degrees. You never really know. The winters are long, especially in the north, and many cannot deal with the lack of sunlight during the darkest months of the year.
6. The high taxes
The tax system is based on a solidarity principle, which means the more you earn the more you pay. For some people that might not be ideal. Collected taxes are used for schools, roads and hospitals. I have met many people along the years you think it is outrageous to pay so much tax, whether one uses those services or not. But as a French, taxes in my country are even higher, and in Norway there is less corruption than in many other countries, so it works for me. In Norway you’ll pay around 35% taxes on your salary if you earn around 500-600.000 NOK.
7. The unhealthy food culture
Don’t get me wrong, there are wonderful fresh produces available in Norway, such as fish and carrots. The problem is that fast food culture is on the rise in Norway, and there is an unbelievable amount of processed food. From what I see, people find using time to cook meals a waste of time, or they just claim they don’t have time.
A recent study showed that between 60 and 80% of all food bought by Norwegians in supermarkets are ultra-processed foods. Some supermarkets like Kiwi try to give a 15% price cut on vegetables, but it does not seem to be doing the trick. According to the Norwegian Health Institute, there are now more people overweight and obese than people who aren’t. Diabetes is also on the rise. People eat a lot of sugar, like really a lot, and not just on Saturdays (Saturday candy culture). It is however very easy to eat healthy food, as vegetables and basic staple food are available everywhere.
8. Hard to find a job
In some fields it is super easy to find a job, like most IT jobs, where they won’t even ask you to speak Norwegian. But in most fields it is hard to find a job, especially without a local network, studies in a Norwegian university and without language skills. Partners following their Norwegian partner are especially at “risk” since their partner probably has no idea how hard it can be. As a foreigner applying to jobs you are basically in competition with Norwegians who know people, speak the language perfectly and understand the social codes of interviews etc. But of course it is possible, many of us have managed, it is just a lot of work and some luck.
9. Surviving the Norwegian administration
The Norwegian administration has some perks, it is almost entirely digitalised and quite efficient. Unless you are waiting for something highly necessary and are not born here. For example, a Bank ID as well as a personal number are things you cannot live without, yet it might be hard and long to get. Changing immigration status – unless from the EU/Nordics- is also a long and painful process. On the bright side, once you’re in the system, everything is easy.
Of course there are also great sides to Norway, read 8 reasons to live in Norway for more of those 🙂
Comments
59 responses to “9 Reasons Not to Live in Norway”
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I think you mean kindergarden and SFO, school is free and Norwegian kids don’t go to school until they turn 6. Kindergarden and SFO costs as you say approx.3500 kr per month per child. Siblings might get a discount if they attend the same kindergarden. Low income families Get a price reduction and SFO is from this autumn free for 6-7 years olds.
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Yes I wrote more in detail to make it clearer, thanks!
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I other countries kids has an opportunities to stay in a school during forking hours from 8 til 17 after end of lessons for free. 3500 nok for couple of hours in SFO is the price of a private school in other EU countries.
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School is free, you pay 3500 nok (approximately) if they attend SFO (which is not mandatory). Other than that you don’t pay for anything, they also get an ipad for school and homework (school should be fun, by the way!).
I agree on the high taxes..
About the weather, in summer time when there are 25 degrees outside, you die (that’s how hot it is)-
As a Norwegian living in France, I have to say we are heavy taxed here… and you don’t always feel you know what you get back. However my son has been in private school for 7 of 8 years (started when he was 3) and now in Public. I’m so surprised of the extremes high quality of everything in the public school in France. Canteen, equipment, “SFO”-like things… and all for free.. and yes also iPads/tablets.
A friend of mine had skin cancer on her nose, she got all plastic surgical operations covered, that would not happen in Norway. (why I know, because my friend with the cancer is also Norwegian).
In Norway, as far as I know, the dental insurance are not very developed. I have this covered 70% by my employer, and the rest by me (around 250 NOK per month). I broke a front tooth when I was 10 and had an implant, this year this implant needed to be redone (after 47 years) – the operation, implant and crown was 85 000 NOK, I paid the fee of 1500 NOK. This would have ruined me in Norway, and this is why Norwegians have in general bad dental health at least if you compare to central European countries.
I just spend (July) 3,5 weeks in Norway, Vestland, 11 degrees and rain almost every day. I think we had 4 to 5 days with sun.
Said that, we had 3-4 weeks of sun last year…
But just to say, I’m not moving home, and I’m close to where Lorelou are borne. it’s hot I can tell you…But, as you all know, traveling and living around and abroad makes us discover these things and makes us see our own country at a distance, as well as the host country.
Do travel, exchange ideas and experiences, it’s the way against the extreme behavior of some of this worlds most powerful nations.Thanks for reading my notes 🙂
“Erlend Emile” -
No! Schools in Norway, aren’t free at all!
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[…] Pingback: 9 Reasons NOT to Live in Norway – A Frog in the Fjord […]
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Living in Switzerland, I could only wish to pay “only” 3500 NOK / month! We’re currently paying about 5x that amount for our daughter to attend the municipal Barnehage three days a week, it’s ridiculously expensive.
I’ve got many friends who made a quick end to their expat lives and moved back to Norway once the pregnancy was a fact; Norway is very family friendly, all things considered.
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Point 9 is a significant issue and about administration of the way of life. Law and regulations are consistrantly growing in Norway towards stealing individual freedom through overprotection. In the name of public and overall security. Regardless of costs! There is a reason for high taxes and evermore need for “byråkrati”. Provocation on population will in my upinion lead to more, and severe, none law abiding citizens and ignoration of rules. An example is the “building law” where it is practically forbidden for private person to use hammer and nails for construction purposes.
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This sounds very…. hostile and although some of it has truth to it this article speaks more about you. I am not going to criticise the rest of foreigners or french people living in Norway for it, but if my mind was more limited I might say that all french whine and spread the bad news rather than focusing on whats great. Telling stories of what some people have said to foreigners is first of all just stories, which might not even be true, but the most important fact is that assholes are everywhere, and mentioning that in an article about living in Norway is just adding your feelings and thoughts about a people. Most people are nice everywhere and you receive what you expect and send out. I enjoyed your book. It was funny. This is not.
unsubscribing.
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I can understand you, but it’s a list of 9 reasons not living in Norway. In that case find it interesting, … and valid.
I think for your comment is really valid, but we need to know the background. If for example you are a Norwegian living in Norway and have always done so, then you feel hurt. If you are French living in Norway, it would be very interesting as you and Lorelou would have some similar background. If you are a foreigner from a non-western-European country, your comment is based on that, would love to know more. If you are from an “less developed country” (it’s a economic description, not cultural or religion) your comments might be easier understand by some…
It’s very important to understand your background.Thanks,
Erlend Emile (French / Norwegian) -
Claiming that all French whine wouldn’t be a sign of close-mindedness but plain stupidity and ignorance. The author doesn’t call all Norwegian arrogant, she’s talking about a survey which doesn’t even reflect her own opinion on the topic (see “why the French are so arrogant” post). Besides, the fact that French express their opinion when they’re unhappy is one of their best assets and the very reason why the quality of life in France is so high. There’s no point to focus on what’s already great. You can only move forward and improve things if you look at what doesn’t work.
There’s a systemic denial in the Norwegian culture that stop Norwegians from seeing all the negative aspects of the Norwegian society. They’ll simply and unobjectively pretend that it’s better than anywhere else. The world and reality as the overall people see it here is distorted by their judgements, feelings and ignorance more than in other countries I’ve lived in. Norwegian can hardly question themselves and you’re an example of it.
I agree that talking about anecdotes in this type of articles is of little interest and would be better off without it. That said I confirm it exists. I experience it myself every once in a while. E.g. “you’re probably not used to it but people here have rights” when I wanted to give a F to some of my Master students who cheated in an exam or “I’ll start the fire because as a Norwegian I’m more experienced than you”. You’re correct when you say that assholes are everywhere. Fortunately all Norwegians aren’t like that. However, there’s a non negligible proportion of Norwegians who are just like this. It’s something some foreigners are likely to experience when moving to the country so it’s certainly worth mentioning it.
Now get a grip and stop being salty. You’re just proving her point.
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As you can conclude from the popularity of this blog and by reading the posts on other social medias, expats from all over the “developed” world and with different cultural backgrounds systematically tell Norwegians that they’re more difficult and, excuse me, often more unpleasant to deal with than the people from other countries. May be it is not those expats who are the problem? Don’t forget that Norway’s recent “superiority” is the result of a randomly discovered raw resource (i.e. free money) and not a consequence of its particular social or economical know-hows.
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I completely agree. Yes, there are cultural barrieres everywhere you go as an expat, but I assume these barriers are greater in Norway than elsewere.
You mostly meet people who are 100% deprived of cultural outlook. They are more often unpleasant and rejective, in my experience.
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Well, I am not French and I think what she has written here are %150 correct. I personally spend the first 2 years trying to convince myself that it is not that bad after coming here but there are truth in what is written on this article. Norway is not a good place to live for foreigners, I would leave with my slippers if I did not have a boyfriend here. People are quite unfriendly except a few, not interested in what is going on outside of their bubble which makes them quite uninteresting too and metally very challenging and extremely isolating to have people around you not even bothered to say hi or thank you which are very basic things. Far from being a superior culture as well since they got independent just 100 years ago and could not get benefits of being a kingdom and so on… I can not describe how it is challenging for me to live here mentally, even the basic things like normal human interection here is such an issue, really please stop being so patriotic and let some people write the truths to inform people who needs information if they think of moving here before moving here. It is not whining, writing truth is only something responsible
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My experience exactly. I moved to Norway from Germany and still find it hard after many years.
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After 10 years in Norway I would say it’s pretty accurate, thou there are and some good things.
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Interesting article. I think it’s positive to balance the images of hiking, nature and fjords, partly because Nordic societies have been over-sold abroad to the point of being fetishised. In the popular imagination, Scandinavia is where you can frolic in nature, drive a big car (guilt free because it’s electric powered by renewables) and lead an upper middle-class existence (also guilt free because you’ve paid your taxes, but you’re still somehow loaded nonetheless). The recent Twitter spat about whether the Swedes are impolite for not feeding the neighbour’s children brought it home to me how different Nordic cultures are and how that over-selling means a great deal of space for misunderstanding. Norway is probably more different and exotic than even the Norwegian’s imagine. The high cost of food though is a common bugbear. Part of this is because Norway taxes food imports. The small population, the tax on food, means less choice. Likewise, there’s a focus on Norwegian producers. Some products marketed as staples would be considered luxuries elsewhere. Personally, I’ll never get used to having to pay 55-60 kr for a litre of ‘Greek style’ yoghurt. As well as the knock on effect for the cost of eating out (the 140kr croissant at the Munch museum being one hilarious example), newcomers feel locked out of how they would wish to consume in the the rest of Europe, or feel priced out of ‘the visible urban culture’ they would participate in, which drives a feeling of otherness and estrangement.
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But still Norway is the beat country in the world for living.
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Hahahaha, you must be drunk or high 🤣🤣🤣.
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But still Norway is the best country in the world for living.
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I wont live there any more… 😉 I found better.
Happy you are happy… -
Hahaha, sorry but that’s just stupid statement. Have you lived in every country in the world? I believe not. What do consider “living”?
What I experienced in Norway, ppl are bad I MEAN BAD drivers, worst in Europe, can’t say world because I didn’t drive around the world but was everywhere in Europe, From London to Moscow (Truckdriver here). Norwegians don’t have sense about ppl around them, most behave like they are alone in the world it doesn’t matter if it’s in the car, walking on the street, driving a bike ect. Like everyone are high constantly, ppl are just not present. Have huge problems with Muslims, so many times asked in night out are “Christian” (Orthodox here). Drink way too much, tend not to behave. In every day life so “closed and distant” but when drunk, no boundaries, they will come and bother you with no problem, interrupt your conversation, sit at your tabe ect. About the food, tell me Norwegian national dish? Don’t have it.
Pretend to be so open and free about everything but actually not true, quite hypocritical I might say about many things. Think they will “save the planet” and that’s most important but don’t realize it’s only 5M of them and they will not change anything. (If you want to save the planet) try to influence the USA, Germany, China and other countries with heavy industry. By amount of taxes they take you would expect better roads. In my observation, nothing can be done in first try, everything needs to be “fixed couple of times” after it’s “finished” 🤣🤣🤣. About work, they have quite “don’t give a fuck attitude” today, tomorrow, next week or month who gives a fuck. And so on and on. Waiting this winter to pass and I’m off, back to Germany. Friends tricked me to move here. One of my biggest mistakes in life.-
Same here. Ich verstehe Sie so gut!
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Dead on about the driving…
Like they spend a ton of money to get their drivers license and it’s like they are driving with their feet with no spatial awareness what so ever. It’s quite terrifying, in truth (and maybe a little bit funny to watch from a distance?)
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Dead on about the driving…
Like they spend a ton of money to get their drivers license and it’s like they are driving with their feet with no spatial awareness what so ever. It’s quite terrifying, in truth (and maybe a little bit funny to watch from a distance?)
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And I, among many others, say that Norway lags behind other countries in many aspects but won a lottery and mistook it for a personal achievement.
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No it is not, And i can mention plenty of reasons why Norway isn’t the best country to live
1. The healthcare system, makes patients wait 12 to even 18 month for a simple surgery, either it is cancer or a chronic disease, the waiting hours is to long!
2. Many Doctors have a hard time to help patients with illnesses or diseases that has not yet, been discovered in Norway, so the best solution is to either make them travel to France or Germany to get medical help, that they need!
3. Authorities has made a decision by cutting staff members or nurses from their job, they are recruiting nursing assistants for lowering the wages, when the system is required by law that it shall always remain 2 on the job.
And i could go on, on, and on…
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In my opinion, one point which is really missing and which is probably hard for a lot of foreigners is the lack of joy in the everyday life in Norway, especially when you come from a lively country from the South. Living in Norway feels more serious and “boring”, it’s sometimes hard to find joy. The main reasons are in my opinion less interactions between people, people staying a lot at home, few events/gatherings and the limited sense of humour of people.
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So sadly true. Never made a norwegian friend in my life. It’s sad. Quiet and sad. Like life stopped when I married and moved here. Something zombi-ish about life in Norway.
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find a real job pls
Serbian girl living in Norway
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1. Which country is it easy to make real friends in adult age, without kids in school etc? I really want a good answer here, trying to make some new ones my self after moving to another city.
2. Barnevernet is doing a great job. Many contact them voluntarily to get help dealing with their kids. Why on earth should you slap your kids anyway?
3. Yes, we got real seasons with much darkness in winter and sun all day long in the summer. Thanks to the rain, we got loads of green power. You dont move to Norway’s west coast if you want loads of sun and heat. South Norway should still be fine for this need.
4. Your survey asks under 25000 across 15 countries in Europe. How many is from Norway is not known. But I question the validation of the survey. Sad if the number is that high, but I believe the participants are not representative for the long country.
5. The food culture??? Eat whatever you want, dont bother what others eat. You said it yourself, there are loads of good food here.
6. Well done trying to get some other points of view up in the sun, but I think the quality in some points are too low from a journalistic point of view.
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1. Try to live in another country and you will see.
3. Sometimes you don’t chose to move to Norway. And Norwegian climate is crappy, this is a fact. Also in South Norway.
5. Food culture is terrible in Norway. This is also a fact. If you are happy with your daily brødskive, I recommend you to travel a bit and see what food culture can be in some other countries. -
Spain to all the answers LOL
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What is your point miss serbian girl living in Norway? 🤔
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There are several valid points, but I totally disagree with the comment on barnevern. Firstly, please provide an example of parents in jail because of a “slap”. This is so unobjective as it is possible to be. Barnevern is alerted quite early, but is usually on the helpful side. I know several cases where they made life much easier for parents and children. It is also very unusual to separate children from their parents as it is claimed sometimes. Others have commented on schools. Schools are free, SFO unfortunately not. But don’t forget another important point for parents when children grow up – universities are also cheap, in difference to many other countries.
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Did or did not your “Child protective services” or how you call it accused of taking kids from ppl for not valid points AND did or didn’t they find some pedos that work in that “child protective services”?
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Like which countries? Please name countries in Europe where universities are not free?
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You have many good observations here and much of it is true. We dont have a culture for food as in many other countries, and everything is expensive.
But your opinion about barnevernet is wrong. If you are a normal parent looking out for your child you have nothing to fear from barnevernet, they have childrens best in mind. Norwegian parents are not perfect, but it is true that physical violence is not allowed, I think its the same in France. And school is free, the costs are for the afterschool (SFO/AKS) and noone uses this after age 10, most children use it in the first two years. -
2. If you find not corporeally punishing your children too complex, then yes… you might find yourself in trouble with the child protection services. Do you have any friends who have lost their children to the child protection services, though? Because throughout my schooldays, it did not happen to any of my friends and acquaintances, although it probably should have. I think this is a myth.
4. Yes, Norwegians think they have a superior culture, but they think it is superior because they think it is moral. It is based on pride in the relatively small wealth disparities, gender equality, lenient judicial system, foreign aid, and general inclusivity (of sexual orientations, races, ethnicities, religions, etc.).
So Norwegians think they have a superior culture in the sense that they think they are superiorly kind. Sanctimonious? Yeah… But still, maybe better than many forms of chauvinism.
As for racism… Those are all anecdotes. According to surveys and statistics, Norway is among the least racist countries in Europe. I could give you links, or you could just google yourself.
7. Unhealthy food? I don’t know how you would attempt to quantify that except by looking at life expectancy. Norway has the highest life expectancy in Europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_life_expectancy8. That point applies to moving to another country in general. Less so to moving to Scandinavia, since that region speaks the best English in the world:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/990547/countries-in-europe-for-english/9. This also goes for moving in general. Whether moving is simpler or harder… How would we know?
Lastly:
-Norway has the most economic equality in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient-It is the richest non-tax-haven in the world:
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
Just by moving here, you got $250,000 as your part of the oil fund.-It has the highest life expectancy in Europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_life_expectancy-It is the fourth best English-speaking country in the world, only beaten by other Scandinavian countries and the Dutch:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/990547/countries-in-europe-for-english/-Norway gives by far the most foreign aid per capita:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/08/which-countries-give-most-aid-oecd/-Norway is the second most gender-equal country in the world, only beaten by Iceland, which used to be part of Norway:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/12/gender-gap-equality-women-parity-countries/-It is among the least racist countries in Europe, contrary to what you said: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/jaxt/blogposts/piblogpost005.html
-It has the seventh most Nobel prizes per capita in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita-and the seventh most summer Olympic medals in the world per capita:
https://www.topendsports.com/events/summer/medal-tally/all-time-comparison-pop.htm
-and by far the most winter Olympic medals in the world capita: https://www.medalspercapita.com/-it is the fourth least corrupt country in the world:
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7KqZBhCBARIsAI-fTKIL1xnjcy3V1R2kbJBxjHXKZkQw-Wsxom5HCIYMXCfVXUt9FGjP6RoaAgD7EALw_wcB– It has the ssecond-highesthuman development index in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index-and is the most democratic country in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_IndexSo when Norwegians say that they are from a superior culture, maybe they aren’t being chauvinist. Maybe they are being honest. If you are going to criticize the country you have decided to move to, you should have your facts straight. Considering everything Norway has given you, you are quite frankly being rude.
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Your reply has disappeared, so I will respond to it by repeating it in my own comment. I will not omit anything so as not to take anything out of context, of course.
“Were you thinking to overturn the points mentioned in the article with that comment? You come across as a caricature of the Norwegians depicted in point 4, with a thick layer of immaturity and frustration to top it off. Not sure you’re helping make a better impression of your fellows.”
I’m perplexed that you find me so unreasonable. I think I was quite civil and to the point. I would appreciate it if you would be polite too. You have found my initial comment spicy in its sarcasm. I still stand by it, having found the point I responded to to be making light of corporal punishment and quote “smacking children”.
“You’re so full of yourself you don’t even realise all the absurdities you wrote. I’m used to hearing a lot of silly stuff from Norwegians’ mouth but reading things like “Scandinavia, since that region speaks the best English in the world” leaves me speechless. You deserve an award for reaching that level of Norwegianism.”
I’m sorry to hear you’ve come to expect so much stupidity from Norwegians that you have come to think of it as “Norwegianism”. I’m not sure what you found stupid about my statement, which is indisputably backed in statistics, but I might guess you’re alluding to nations with English as their native language being more proficient in it than Scandinavians. Absolutely, I hoped that that would go without saying.
“You should have tried to question yourself on the different points raised (which are frankly gentle criticisms) instead of listing figures you obviously don’t understand anything about.”
Then help sort me out. What statistics have I misunderstood? More importantly: do you find racism, chauvinism, and taking children from their parents, minor issues? I think they are very serious accusations, certainly not “minor criticisms”.
The simple fact that you have to look for random top x found online to convince yourself of your delusion is pathetic.
“As for your last sentence, speaking as a caucasian male who has experienced living in both countries, I can tell you that France gave her much more, including a critical mind. Ponder on it.”
Who am I speaking to? The author’s husband? I don’t think that there is any reason to turn this into a competition between France and Norway. I have not mentioned France with a word, because it was not relevant to my reply. However, if you feel insulted on behalf France, let me tell you that I find it a magnificent country with a fantastic culture. I cannot think of any country that has contributed more culture than France, perhaps except Germany, and rivaled by Italy, Greece, and England. Two of my five closest friends are French. They both love Norway, but one of them thinks Norwegians can be a little rude. I agree.
Lastly, to respond to the topic of another article, there is a word for “please” in Norwegian: “Er du snill”. Actually, those are several words, but so are: “s’il vous plaît”.
When criticizing another culture, it is important to be fair and accurate.
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I’m not sure if I agree on the racism part. I’ve lived in Norway for 3 years, just before the Coco-19. I’m from Belgium, but I’m black. And I’ve never experienced racism. I’ve met a couple of Kenyans and other black people from Switzerland or the Netherlands. And no, a couple of us have Norwegian friends, never had any comment of people explaining to us what is a computer or not. I mean, my experience was not necessarily harder or easier than my other skin colors friends that came from outside of Norway. I’ve met there people from Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, France, England, the US, many Germans, Swiss, Dutch people, Italians, Kenyans, Ethiopians, Filipinos (many many many many of them) and I frankly didn’t hear much about racism in Norway, except that one time when there was an incident on TV. And as for my Norwegian friend, never heard of them talking bad
I know racism is everywhere, but I’d say, Norway is one the country where it’s less likely to happen. So personally, I’d even put such a thing on a list of “good reasons to live in Norway”, because it is really inclusive. Hard to make friends, maybe, but inclusive. Especially compared to the rest of the world.
However, for the rest yes, quite accurate. They love their Norway. I was even told once “Why would we join the EU, we’ve already had the Germans and the Danish here. Now that we are finally free, we don’t want Brussels to give us orders.”
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You make a lot of good point that I agree with, but I have to make some corrections
A bit about who I am: I am a Norwegian from Oslo (but with one parent from a different European country) and I have travelled a lot and lived one year in the US and one year in Spain, as well as travelled to France more than 10 times, and to various other countries.
When you are French, I understand why you think bread is not healthy. While French bread such as baguette is super delicious, it is also not healthy at all. No fiber. Most Norwegians think white bread (such as loff) is not food, but something for special days, a bit like cake. It is easy to buy fresh newly baked very healthy bread at all supermarkets in Norway, and if you look at kids’ lunchboxes you will find whole grain bread with a lot of fibers.
If you eat Keto it’s not considered healthy to eat wholegrain bread. In most other diets it’s considered very healthy though, up there with vegetables, as it contains a lot of important nutrients and minerals 🙂When it comes to spreads, a couple of slices of ham doesn’t have too much salt, nor does cheese, “leverpostei” or the other spreads. When I was little as well as now when I have little children in school, sweet spreads are frowned upon. That is, the teachers will tell the kids it’s NOT allowed to have sweet spreads on the bread. In the USA where I lived for one year, kids brought chips and cookies to lunch daily, and if they ate bread it was white bread. For me, who came from Norway, that was a huge shock. I consider the Norwegian lunchbox a whole lot more healthy.,
In addition most kids bring a fruit to school (usually apple, but could be anything), or their school have a fruit subscription. Many parents like to put fruits, berries or vegetables in the lunch boxes as well.
And when it comes to racism, it’s the small, but vocal, minority, who write in the comment sections. If you speak with normal people everywhere in Norway, there is LITTLE racism, luckily! There should of course be no racism, and I do hope we get there.
When I was in the US, many people asked me if I had seen a car before. I am surprised to hear that foreigners have been asked questions like that at universities in Norway, and honestly I find it a bit hard to believe. Maybe it was meant as a joke, or the person was being mean and sarcastic. Those can be the only options, as all Norwegians are WELL aware of the fact that there is soap and computers and cars in every country of the world. If what you are writing is based on what you heard someone heard from someone else, it might be a feather that envolved into 5 chicken… That is, the story might have changed. Because I am a very sociable person from Oslo, I have taken a master’s degree, I have always had MANY international friends, at school, at uni and later, and I have never ever heard of such a thing. So I don’t think people from other countries are asked if they know what soap, computers or cars are.
Other than that, I agree with you on the other things. 🙂
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I’m Spanish and they have said to me many times: ‘Have you seen the snow before??
No I live in a Bubble 😀
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Fact: NOK is rubbish as a currency – lost 35% of value against EUR in 10 years.
Myth: “We pay high taxes because we earn high salaries”. Maybe in some jobs. Salaries are low for skilled workers (“skilled” is the word the Norwegian administration use) considering cost of living – on the hand they don’t ask you to work much and there is a lot of job security. However, most Norwegian believe people earn a lot there – once I explained to a Norwegian how much university professors earn in Switzerland and he didn’t believe it (2 or 2 1/2 times what they earn in Norway). -
I was in Norway recently. First impressions, they say, matter a lot.
Before my visit I had no preconceived notions of Norway as a society and as an economy. I equally had no preconceived notions of Norwegians as a people and as a culture. Everything I will say here, I promise, was generated by Norwegians themselves as I met the people and culture for the first time.
My perspective – assuming it matters: I have travelled the world and I believe that we Finns have benefited quite a great deal from our geography; direct Finnair flights to all top Eastern/Asian and Western destinations. Finland, I have also come to realise, has the most functional society of all Nordic countries; I link this to Finland having the Western world’s highest average IQ and I believe the highly functional society of Finland is the reason for Finland topping the World Happiness Report Rankings for the past six years (six straight years).
MY FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF NORWAY:
CONTEXT: I visited an office of the tax administration of Norway because I intended to spend more than six months studying in a Norwegian university.
—MENTALITY: It would seem that Norwegians aren’t aware of their smallness as a society or country. Whereas we in Finland generally believe we are a small country in the grand scheme of things. As mentioned, quality travel helps. But so does quality education. Norwegians definitely travel, but they appear clearly rather provincial in mentality compared to Finns. It would seem that Norway is the most provincial of all Nordic countries. EXAMPLE 1: The tax administration officer was foolish enough to tell me that I don’t have a Finnish name. This, in 2023. EXAMPLE 2: A local couple was equally visiting the same tax administration office at the time. And there was the third visitor: a refugee man from Sudan. I sat with the local couple as the Sudanese was being attended to. The local husband had to signal/gesture by hand and ear to his local wife, telling her to pay attention to the conversation that was taking place between the tax administration officer and the Sudanese man. I couldn’t believe it. In 2023, unashamedly and provincially eavesdropping on the personal and official conversation of another visitor. I knew immediately, at that office, that I had come to a provincial country. A person commented under this article that “Norwegians don’t have sense about ppl around them, most behave like they are alone in the world…” THE PERSON WAS RIGHT. Think the tactless and provincial couple that I just mentioned.
—EDUCATION: Having spoken to my Norwegian university mates, it was easy to conclude that Finland takes better care of its students. Finland simply values education more than Norway does. Finland believes more in investing in its population than Norway does. My advice to immigrants in Norway: pay attention to how a country treats its own people because you will receive the same, if not worse, treatment. Norway isn’t even kind or generous to its own young students, compared to how societies such as Finland’s, Singapore’s, South Korea’s etcetera treat and invest in their young. A country (Norway) which doesn’t believe that its young deserves superior investment cannot imagine that you, the immigrant or expat, hold much value. This is commonsensical.
—INFRASTRUCTURE: Things are poorly built in Norway compared to Finland. Clearly so. And the screech of Norwegian train brakes … no offense but we don’t have that in Finland. Our trains are quiet and newer and faster. Can Norway not afford better, newer, faster trains or what? And why is the internet connection at your Oslo airport free-of-charge only for the first four hours? (CONTRAST: The internet connection at the Helsinki Airport is completely free of charge and that’s in addition to Finnair being Northern Europe’s best airline and Helsinki Airport being Europe’s best airport in its size category.) Would it be fair, perhaps, to say that Norway’s is a cheap, penny-pinching culture?
—SYSTEM: The Norwegian system is much slower and less efficient than Finland’s. Additionally, individual rights are respected more in Finland than in Norway.
—ECONOMY: Norway is like Ireland. GDP is high on paper, but it isn’t because of the people. In Ireland it is because of foreign corporations. In Norway it is because of offshore oil deposits. Norway doesn’t have a smart population and doesn’t have an intelligent economy and it shows, because both go hand in hand. It has a dumb economy and the population can’t be expected to be particularly smart. Smart as used in this context means genteel, well-bred or refined, and belonging to polite society. And money, as goes the old saying, cannot buy class. The classiest of Nordics are clearly Finns, followed by Swedes, Danes, and Icelanders. And Norway feels rather poorer than Finland. This is what you get when you actually educate your population and they build and sustain your intelligent economy and society (Finland). Versus Norway: kept afloat by oil income but the population isn’t developed and the future is clearly not being invested in.
CONCLUSION: I left Norway after two months and will complete my studies online. Driven purely by the fact that I like what I like and have no reason to accept/like what I don’t like. I have to live forward and not backwards. Spending eight months studying in Norway (the original plan) was going to amount to living backwards. No, thank you.
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What is the university you studied at? And in what city did that situation in tax administration happen?
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But actually thanks a lot for this comment. I wanted to study in a Nordic country and considered Norway as an option. But later I realised it’s not really worth it. Finland seems better :]
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Hi, thanks so much for this post! I am married to a Norwegian and lived there for 12 years. This is a very accurate description of the country. We are back in my home country and I wake up every day thinking about how lucky I am to live in a place with nice weather and color in nature (flowers, trees, blue sky). I am thankful for my time in Norway but I really hope I don´t have to do back at some point.
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I am a black American who recently visited Norway and I hated it. I felt like they were racist. First off, the passport control was very rude towards me and made me feel unwelcome. Then, I went to burger king in Storgata and I was waiting behind these two young Norwegians for about three minutes. Then two older Norwegian men came and lined up behind me, the two young Norwegian people in front of me told the two older Norwegian men behind me that they weren’t in line and that they could get in front of them (in Norwegian). They ignored me and didn’t address me to say they weren’t in line because I was black and not Norwegian.
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[…] local friends in Norway is not as easy as many people think. A survey done by InterNations shows that Norwegians […]
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here we go. numbers don’t lie 🙂 https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/2023/best-and-worst-places-for-expats-40353
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Well Lorelou, emigration is not only by foreigners, it include Norwegians moving to other countries as well. The study at OsloMet ain’t because of high emigration rates, both France and Norway have among the lowest emigration rates in Europe. If looking at the net migration rates for the period 2015-2020, I was surprised to find that Norway had higher net migration than France. So basically, you gave 9 reasons for a problem that do not exists and if considering it a problem, it’s bigger elsewhere.
Nevertheless, people do leave Norway and for very good reasons, as a young French girl, I did smile when noticing you missed the top reason. Dear you, it’s about LOVE. We travel a lot to other countries, not seen ranking of who travel the most to other countries, but I be very surprised if not Norwegians are near the top of the charts. Top reason why my friends (immigrants and Norwegians) relocated to or from Norway was LOVE. My two siblings and I left Norway, one went to do research at University in USA, the other went to work in Argentina, while I went around the world doing sports. However, we all returned back to Norway for the same reason, that reason we all ended up with a partner that lived in Norway.
I was mostly in France and can understand very well why all-year living in Norway can be a shock. However, Oslo is not Norway, just like Paris is not France. I do live in Oslo for work reasons and did study at UiO, but can’t wait until I retire and can leave Oslo city life behind. It do not matter to me what country the city is in, it’s the same everywhere, you lack green recreational space, there are people everywhere and farm land is lost to roads and houses. There will be poverty, begging in the streets, criminality, etc.
Your assessment of Norway not being a good place for kids, I disagree with. I grew up in a fjord and had very healthy food, but these days there are way less housewifes and way more fast food. However, my wife is a excellent cook and while not French chef level, it’s top notch. Traditional Norwegian breakfast is healthy, but the best part of being a kid in Norway is all the snow and ice, best playground there is. Kids can be brutal with each other, so the thing to watch out for in my view is bullying. Yes, until the age of 12, kids do not get grades in school and are allowed to do competitive sports. Personally, I don’t mind this, there will be enough competitive years after and robustness in mental health is important. I had world champions in my class and done competitive sports myself, we do create winners too and if you wanna be a Norwegian ski ‘hero’, need to win gold.
The biggest blow to Norwegian pride in modern times was Lake Placid Winter Olympics in 1980, where Norway only got 1 gold medal. Prior to that disaster, was the mentally of “the most important thing is to do it, not to win”. Afterwards, we shifted and very much developed a winning culture, maybe not so easy to see it, but in winter sports it is one of the most competitive places to be. I was into summer sports, but sometimes trained with people on the national ski team, they did very well.
Yes, there is an ugly side to national pride, it can be disrespect and arrogance toward other cultures, but for a young nation there is a need for national pride to get independence and then you need do nation building. Norwegian pride is not like elsewhere, the heroes was Polar explorers like Nansen and Amundsen, basically Norwegians are happy if they out-ski the Swedes, that’s it. Oh yes, Sweden have been the big brother since the Sweden-Norway union ended in 1905, it don’t matter to a Norwegian if Finns, Danes, Russian or French wins, as long as we beat Sweden in ski sports.
There are arguments for and against the Nordic welfare model, I will not debate it, but the effect is a high cost of living, prices and tax fund the model, so to foreigners this model will be a shock. The Nordic model is pretty much the same in all the Nordic countries, so either accept it, or relocate outside Nordics with less costly social security.
The Norwegian climate is a huge challenge for many, if not loving snowy winters and the seasons, many foreigners will hate all-year living in Norway. The north is too much for me as well, I lived up there and did not stand the dark period and the very long winter. The Oslo climate is much warmer, but to be happy, I think only those that are into outdoor activities will like it.
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totally agreed, they even sent me child services cause they insisted my child was autistic and I said I don’t think so, that was the whole reason, they scared us more than help us, in my country id be free to choose a doctor and ask for more opinions if im not agreed and nobody feels bad. and yes, as I though, my kid is not autistic, just speak 3 languages.
more I work, less money I have and not appreciate it.
Norwegians attitude is really cold and distant, even the teachers, once accused me to deliver my kids with out a driving licence, when I do have it. Cant wait to take my husband and family to my country, he already rather my country cause he sees his family is very cold and absent, in my country, he found out we are actually more “koseleg” -
Regarding #4:
The US ambassador to Norway in 2009 described, in internal communication, Norwegians as “smug, moralising people with a low work ethic. They always blame others when something goes wrong, and they believe there is something inherently good about being norwegian. You are in deep trouble if you dare critizising them.
Further, they perceive someone who view things differently, than their peers, as someone who are on the wrong path and needs to be corrected” https://www.nettavisen.no/artikkel/nordmenn-er-selvgode/s/12-95-3047444According to Nowegian acclaimed writer Georg Johannesen, Norway has become a country with a fear of submission, with foreigners pushed away and regarded as “evil or dumb and just waiting for Norwegians to intervene and help them”
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=georg+johannesen+norsk+selvgodhedWriter Erlend Loe, who has written several best selling novels, states; “Den norske selvgodheten har blitt mørkere og drøyere”;
“The norwegian smugness has become darker and more persistant”
https://www.boktips.no/skjonnlitteratur/romaner/erlend-loe-den-norske-selvgodheten-har-blitt-morkere-og-droyere/Norwegian psychiatrist Fred Heggen has also addressed the Norwegian identity. He proposes that the Norwegian aim to promote peace around the world stems from a sort of collective narcissism, with Norwegians believing they are special enough, to take the center role in peace missions.
https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/den-sarnorske-narsissismen/s/12-95-3423674488Personally, having lived in both Bergen and Olso, I think these narcissistic traits mainly occur among people in Oslo.
When starting a new job here you’re automaticly assigned a client role involuntarily – with the underling assumption that you need Norwegians to get on the right track, morally.
Bergen was a different matter, with people being a lot more ‘down to earth’. I would actually recommend going there, if you have choice:)When I leave Oslo this annoying feeling of not being taken seriously will probably be the main reason.
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You describe an increased Nationalism that is taking place in the entire West. It’s a healthy development that’s natural in a corner of the world that has been self-sacrificial to a point of buckling.
Norway’s important peace role has been noted by many outside of Norway. It’s an easily demonstrable fact. Whether Norwegians should be proud of it is a separate question, but it’s worth noting that the idea that one shouldn’t take pride in one’s achievements is a modern one. As far as achievements go, spreading peace seems like an admirable one.
As for Bergen… Its people is infamous for its arrogance across Norway, so your opinion is unusual. If you asked all Norwegians for an adjective describing Bergenians, “bragging” would be at the top of the list.
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I actually don’t think I’m describing a phenomena that is generally going on in the west.
As the poll Lorelou refers to suggests, Norwegians are the only people with the majority answering ‘yes’ when asked “our culture is not perfect, but it is superior to others”
The west has probably been letting go of some guilt of the past and instead taken pride in the achievements, which is a good thing, but the culture of selv critisism is what allowed us to progress. This seems to have been absent in Norway (at least in my eyes) almost completely, but maybe a change is coming, for example with the “Exit” TV series on NRK. Perhaps.Regarding Norway on peace missions. As Fred Heggen describes in an example: when Erik Solheim was a peace broker on Sri Lanka, he was hated by both the belligerents. The peace mission did’t work, and both parties continued the atrocities against each other.
Solheim didn’t resign, and subsequently failed to recognize that any of the mistakes were made by himself.
A collective narcissim, if one such is dominant in Norwegians, has perhaps resulted in a dumb stubborn approach, and a lack of scrutiny, when Solheim instead should have let others perform the role.
I have personally also experienced how stubborn and annoyingly self-important Norwegians can appear, at times. There’s nothing wrong with promoting peace, but I I often find Norwegians impossible to disagree with, unlike anywhere else I have travelled.My references show I’m not alone with my perception and the skilled collumnist Sanna Sarromaa wrote once “Nordmenn elsker å tenke på seg selv som verdens snilleste”
https://www.aftenposten.no/amagasinet/i/0QbE/sanna-sarromaa-nordmenn-elsker-aa-tenke-paa-seg-selv-som-verdens-snillesteIn Bergen, I met great hospitality and friendly people. But again I mostly hung out with Norwegians, who where not actually from Bergen.
The few people, from the Bergen elite, I met were certainly arrogant.
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Well, as long as we agree that Norwegian Nationalism is about being exceptionally kind, 90% of my disagreement with you is gone.
Again, I’d like to point out that Norway is seen that way by other nations too. They did not partake in colonialism or slavery, and they haven’t started any wars in 1200 years. That track record made Nobel trust them with the peace prize. Personally, I don’t think there’s any arrogance in seeing yourself the way others see you, and expressing that you have that perception. I think it’s more honest than false humility.
As for specific Norwegian peace missions, that’s too anecdotal and subjective for me to have a comment on. Norwegians have partaken in myriad.
I don’t agree that Western culture of self criticism is bringing us forward at all. I think it is catastrophic.
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How about a reason #10?
The Norwegain cowardice.
Norwegians are generally completely unable to both receive and give criticism.
Instead they prefer to talk behind the back of the person or those they want to deal with.
The very active (foreign) columnist Sanna Sarromaa wrote about this:
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/meninger/i/mrnA11/nordmenn-en-gjeng-med-persilleblad
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